nearly full :)

[Fozzles]

ok, we have our tanks, our heals, and probably 4 dps. mlaf is on a little cooldown period i believe, due to his new born daughter ( :D, gz again ), AZ has signed up, with cable and diap incoming very soon (just waiting on their applications being completed), so from there we are looking at a 10 man team in place very soon

with that in mind, there are a few things that i guess we need to decide upon.

number one, who is our last dpsser? do we have anyone in guild, or should we recruit? ( i realise we should prolly have back up dps, tanks, heals, but 10 man has to be first priority)

number 2, do we stop at this point, or do we start up 10 man team number 2, with cable (tkstorm) and glavonja (if he were interested)tanking, and recruit for that team? or alternatively farm out the wednesday gear up run to them, and develop our own considerable un-pluggged talent that way?

number 3, who is raid leader? raid leader is the final word on all tactics, no matter what individual feelings are, and has to earn and continue to deserve the respect of all. raid leader is an observant person who is not afraid of pulling the punches when necessary, but, unlike pug raid leaders, knows how to talk to people without incensing them unnecesarily. Personally, i dont enjoy leading raids, but will do if needed, but definately couldnt fulfill the raid leader role properly, i have too much to concentrate on as a healer to even type coherently, let alone watch what others are doing to the point of being able to point out where it went wrong :s

im sure there are more areas ive missed, please raise em here too

[Fozzles]

on item number 3, im gonna put forward 3 people, all of who i feel would make good RL, for various reasons
Ace
Malf
Plex

(in alpha order)

there are others, but i think all 3 would be game too, as opposed to seedy who would command our respect easily, but i suspect wouldnt want the job (for example)

[Divinia]

Raid leader would have to know the tactics and be able to explain them well sometimes even calling out even during a fight .. (move over now guys) for example and for this reason should be able to talk on ts to the raid in progress..

Also what fozzies said about being sensitive to people's feelings...( you stupid idiot) for example wouldn't do .. People can so easily get upset in these things ..

[Divinia]

Also about a second raid team.. I think if we can get a second raid team going that would be great because eventually we can combine the two teams for 25 man runs.. also if there is only the one team with the same people going other interested parties may move on feeling they will never get in..

[SJP1872]

Thanks for the vote of confidence Fozz..... hope this isnt like football or ill be sacked next week

You'll know by now im a bit of a wow tactics whore, i spend my damn lunch times and coffee breaks reading wowwikis guides to bosses which does mean id be good at giving out tactics, however i think whoever is to be RL has to have TS or Vent. I can use either to listen but not to talk. My pc is on its knees as it is using either of these to listen without using a mike, on top of the fact ill be sitting playing in my living room 2 ft from wife and baby^^

I think Plex or Ace are best placed as tanks to RL as they are the ones who will need to have the Raid move to accomodate there tactics. I can type at a decent rate so i can and will contribute where i need to. If it helps i'll take the Loot Master Role.

Its probably advisable to create a tank and heals typed chat channel to accomodate there conversation and distinguish it from raid chatter.

Ive managed to get my Sunday nights free entirely for raiding (its cost me never playing before 1030 on all other nights GRR)

[SJP1872]

In terms of the DPS spot, we really need to see who the signed up names are. Im assuming from other forum.

Tanks ace plex
Heals serie, bigw and seeder?
Dps Malfred, Aze, diap, cable.

This means were really needing another ranged. So we either ask in guild chat for one more caster dps to join the raid team or we try and recruit a friend / guildie on the actual raid night. If we cant find another guildy then id prefer to bring a pal of a guildy, really dont want to gear a person weve never met before. If we do leave other space open to fill on raid nights then that has the advantage of allowing those who dont raid to experience it.

A better option considering the buffs to shadow is that we accomodate another of our guild healers into the group and seedy goes shadow if hes happy to, or brings Tolvon who did 8k dps in 25man icc the other night. A mage or Hunter would be very sweet to bring into the group, particularly with saurfangs fight in mind.

[SJP1872]

The group outlined above seems pretty geared for icc10 running straight off the bat, with many if not all having the 4/4 achiev via pugs.

The dps looks to be in the region of 20k dps with the 4 of us and with another caster, call that 25k. Factor in about another 5k from both tanks and were sitting nicely at 30k dps. Wiki reckons to do Rotface we should have 32k dps so with a few runs through icc10 for gear, practice and badges those figures should be achievable. Especially given that ive only assumed 5k per dps.

[Azeliah]

Big Foz-woody wrote:

number one, who is our last dpsser? do we have anyone in guild, or should we recruit? ( i realise we should prolly have back up dps, tanks, heals, but 10 man has to be first priority)

I can think of a few who could step in as last dps, but I'm not sure that they are capable of joining the raid team due to personal matters (non-guildies btw).

Big Foz-woody wrote:

number 2, do we stop at this point, or do we start up 10 man team number 2, with cable (tkstorm) and glavonja (if he were interested)tanking, and recruit for that team? or alternatively farm out the wednesday gear up run to them, and develop our own considerable un-pluggged talent that way?

If we make a second raid team, I will have to add that there's not a long way from 2x10 to 25. *hint hint* It could be useful if we want the option of having a geared and experienced 25 man raiding team later on, or at least being able to plan 25 man raids for better lootz.

Big Foz-woody wrote:

number 3, who is raid leader? raid leader is the final word on all tactics, no matter what individual feelings are, and has to earn and continue to deserve the respect of all. raid leader is an observant person who is not afraid of pulling the punches when necessary, but, unlike pug raid leaders, knows how to talk to people without incensing them unnecesarily. Personally, i dont enjoy leading raids, but will do if needed, but definately couldnt fulfill the raid leader role properly, i have too much to concentrate on as a healer to even type coherently, let alone watch what others are doing to the point of being able to point out where it went wrong :s

I will say that I'm not able to be a proper raid leader, but I will raise a hand for assist duty, because I've been used to spamming messages in /rw during boss fights (i.e. sarth flame wave), I've been used to consulting with the raid leader every now and then regarding tacs and whatnots. Basically, I can keep a good overview of a boss fight if I have to, not a big deal if I've tried the encounter a couple of times.

[[Ace]]

Very good - We need to shout about another Caster in Guild to join our Raid team - then stick with these 10. Yes we need some backups but lets get 10 first and get some runs going.. backups can be recruited in time.

RL: I agree they should be able to talk on TS or at least type bloody fast. I cannot when Mrs is up as I get a bollocking for talking to the computer and not her Women...

I can type fast tho - and I do research tactics heavily before we head anywhere. I don't mind if no one else would like to take the role. I am quite calm and hopefully can get my point across without upsetting anyone.. but if there is a better candidate please choose them.

Cool then! 1 Caster and we are good to go. I will spam Guild when I get the chance and also update MOTD to reflect this. If nothing comes of it I will spam trade.

Thanks all!!

[[Ace]]

Sorry I cannot edit here. One thing to add though.

A second team would be great and Glav/TKStorm could tank for sure - but we would need to recruit heavy to fill. We would loose Cable from Team 1 though if we do this.. so would need to recruit another Dps'er to fill.. unless he is up for joining both teams ;)

[[Ace]]

Damn Edit button.. Regarding Teamspeak.

Yes it helps but is not required.. I used to raid with a deaf guy who got booted from so many guilds because he couldn't use Teamspeak on their raids.. lame in my opinion.

If people actually read the Raid text instead of ignoring it they will be perfectly fine. Most of the time when on TS in raids all I hear is random bollocks, while very funny - isn't exactly helping the Raid.. so I dont see TS as any sort of requirement.

[SJP1872]

IMO were a long way from running 25 mans, in terms of gear and bodies. Do we regularly have 30 people logged in? and are they interested in raiding?

I think its a no on 1 if not both counts, serious recruiting will be required to get 25 mans going. TS and Vent become imperative then as well.

Sorry for being negative, but lets a get three or four weeks of regular 10 mans happening before we even consider the 2nd group layout and then 25 mans.

An easy marker for 25 man running would be posting a 25 man run at naxx, then even if were shourt 4 or 5 bodies we go for the less is more achiev.

[[Ace]]

No no no all this talk on 25 mans drives me insane.. at the moment we arn't even at the state we can get 10 peeps who want to raid logged on let alone 25 man - pug 25's all the way at the moment unless some drastic recruiting is done sharpish!!

[Diapsalma]

Agree, lets get our first team going before we talk about a second one or even 25-man. But we dont need 20 peeps for running 2 teams though, we have allmost had 2 teams now in a way with easier runs on wed´s and harder on sat´s. Theres nothing imposing that some members participate in both teames are there? (given that they dont run at the same time). In time I also think we should try 25-man adding up our ranks with pugs for xp-reasons. But as I said, lets get our first team up and running first:)

[Fozzles]

just to add my thoughts to acesorbs "pug 25's all the way at the moment unless some drastic recruiting is done sharpish!!"

drastic recruiting means we would have to put up with idiots in guild, as opposed to our gradual growth, which has led to our current position as one of the best social guilds on server, if not in eu. if people are not concerned about that, then let me know en-mass , and ok, we will do it, but otherwise we will continue to grow at our nice pace. a small recruitment drive shouldnt affect our overall feel, the overwhelming balance of nice people should pressure any small number of new members into our way